While I think that this is a pretty good video, and completely agree with fundamental premise that the Bible is about God and not us I'm not sure I like how Keller gets there.
I'm a little concerned that Keller is over-spiritualizing certain texts, especially in the part where he draws comparison from OT characters to Jesus. My concern here lies with the fact while the parallels Keller draws could be true, I think he's guilty of false connection, taking specific narrative points and connecting them to Jesus despite the fact that those things are not implied in the Biblical text. That Jesus is the complete Adam, Abel, Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, Joseph, Moses, rock of Moses, Job, David, Esther, Jonah... is an idea that sounds good at face value but is a point that transcends the Biblical text. While I would agree that people are often guilty of hermeneutical mistakes when reading OT narratives especially moralizing them, I'm not sure that drawing extra-biblical comparisons like this is much better.
Again, I completely agree with the premise that the Bible is not about us, but I would disagree that every word and story of the OT points to Jesus the way Keller is describing in this video.
Thanks for faithfully reading this blog. I really enjoy our interactions. Before I respond, I'm curious if you disagree with with all of the OT parallels Keller draws to Christ, or just some of them. And if only some of them, which ones?
I love your blog, and appreciate the amount of work and thought you put into it! Thank you for this service as it has done much to stimulate my thinking on our savior.
I'm not sure which word to chose here, because I don't think that "disagree" is the right one even though I used it. I guess when I think about the OT pointing to Christ, I think that its the meta-narrative of the OT that is pointing to Christ. Granted there are specific instances where Christ is foretold, but generally those don't happen within the micro-narratives (or the regular Bible stories).
We would easily agree that each of the people mentioned serve a valuable function in God's redemptive plan, however that primary purpose is usually not to serve as a parallel to Jesus' power.
I reaffirm that I totally agree with Keller's thesis "The Bible isn't about you". I would say that each major person (including all of those mentioned in the video) in some way play a role in God's redemptive plan as it moves toward Jesus. I totally agree that these roles played by these people have nothing to do with us and have everything to do with God. However, I would also say that based on this video one would think that the primary point of these people's roles in redemptive history were in some way to serve as parallels (in some limited or diminished capacity) with Jesus and my problem lies in the fact that these people's roles in redemptive history were not that and that scripture doesn't say that they are.
I'm concerned that we're drawing parallels that sound good, and aren't necessarily wrong in and of themselves, but that over-spiritualize or insert new meaning into stories beyond the intent of their writing. God had a purpose for the lives and events in each of these people's lives, but I'm not sure that he did it so that they could be held as parallels to Jesus . To me it seems like a hermeneutical misstep. I could be wrong though and I am totally open to your thoughts.
Alright, now almost 2 weeks later, having studying the subject of Biblical Typology and done so thinking about this video, I'm going to go ahead and retract all of what I've said, and affirm that this is a good video.
Its humbling and mind blowing to think that Jesus is the completeness of all of these people and further that each of the gospel writers saw that and in some cases focused their gospels on those things. Thanks for the very thought provoking link to this video. It actually opened up a whole new realm of theology that I've never studied before.
Oh, dang it Bob! I had been compiling a good response for you and just didn't get the time to post it. Haha! I'm so glad though that you took the time to check things out for yourself. How would you feel about me posting my response anyways?
While I think that this is a pretty good video, and completely agree with fundamental premise that the Bible is about God and not us I'm not sure I like how Keller gets there.
ReplyDeleteI'm a little concerned that Keller is over-spiritualizing certain texts, especially in the part where he draws comparison from OT characters to Jesus. My concern here lies with the fact while the parallels Keller draws could be true, I think he's guilty of false connection, taking specific narrative points and connecting them to Jesus despite the fact that those things are not implied in the Biblical text. That Jesus is the complete Adam, Abel, Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, Joseph, Moses, rock of Moses, Job, David, Esther, Jonah... is an idea that sounds good at face value but is a point that transcends the Biblical text. While I would agree that people are often guilty of hermeneutical mistakes when reading OT narratives especially moralizing them, I'm not sure that drawing extra-biblical comparisons like this is much better.
Again, I completely agree with the premise that the Bible is not about us, but I would disagree that every word and story of the OT points to Jesus the way Keller is describing in this video.
Hey Bob,
ReplyDeleteThanks for faithfully reading this blog. I really enjoy our interactions. Before I respond, I'm curious if you disagree with with all of the OT parallels Keller draws to Christ, or just some of them. And if only some of them, which ones?
Hey Jon,
ReplyDeleteI love your blog, and appreciate the amount of work and thought you put into it! Thank you for this service as it has done much to stimulate my thinking on our savior.
I'm not sure which word to chose here, because I don't think that "disagree" is the right one even though I used it. I guess when I think about the OT pointing to Christ, I think that its the meta-narrative of the OT that is pointing to Christ. Granted there are specific instances where Christ is foretold, but generally those don't happen within the micro-narratives (or the regular Bible stories).
We would easily agree that each of the people mentioned serve a valuable function in God's redemptive plan, however that primary purpose is usually not to serve as a parallel to Jesus' power.
I reaffirm that I totally agree with Keller's thesis "The Bible isn't about you". I would say that each major person (including all of those mentioned in the video) in some way play a role in God's redemptive plan as it moves toward Jesus. I totally agree that these roles played by these people have nothing to do with us and have everything to do with God. However, I would also say that based on this video one would think that the primary point of these people's roles in redemptive history were in some way to serve as parallels (in some limited or diminished capacity) with Jesus and my problem lies in the fact that these people's roles in redemptive history were not that and that scripture doesn't say that they are.
I'm concerned that we're drawing parallels that sound good, and aren't necessarily wrong in and of themselves, but that over-spiritualize or insert new meaning into stories beyond the intent of their writing. God had a purpose for the lives and events in each of these people's lives, but I'm not sure that he did it so that they could be held as parallels to Jesus . To me it seems like a hermeneutical misstep. I could be wrong though and I am totally open to your thoughts.
Alright, now almost 2 weeks later, having studying the subject of Biblical Typology and done so thinking about this video, I'm going to go ahead and retract all of what I've said, and affirm that this is a good video.
ReplyDeleteIts humbling and mind blowing to think that Jesus is the completeness of all of these people and further that each of the gospel writers saw that and in some cases focused their gospels on those things. Thanks for the very thought provoking link to this video. It actually opened up a whole new realm of theology that I've never studied before.
Oh, dang it Bob! I had been compiling a good response for you and just didn't get the time to post it. Haha! I'm so glad though that you took the time to check things out for yourself. How would you feel about me posting my response anyways?
ReplyDeleteHey brother, go for it, I'd love to read it.
ReplyDelete